thenearshore | 39 - Where Do We Stand?

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39 - Where Do We Stand?

Who: Everyone!
What: Help the Heavens investigate what remains of the cult and their compound
When: May 2
Where: A converted farm on the rural edge of the Tokyo metro area
Summary: Characters can discuss what they know about the cult, choose how much or how little they tell the Heavens' representative Suijin, and help make decisions about where to go from here.

This place was once a farm, then rebuilt into a compound with a big central building, heavy concrete walls and plenty of outdoor spaces for ritual magic. Now, the rooftop has caved in, and the main floor has collapsed as well, leaving a basement open to the skies above. All around, police tape from a local Near Shore department has quarantined off the area. Amaterasu's shinki, in cooperation with those from Suijin, Fuujin, and Raijin have managed to take shifts warning miscreants and the police away from the area, but left the tape to help with those efforts. Just beyond the tape, they've now put up Borderlines to safely guard against ayakashi for the duration of this meeting, but they're pretty far out of earshot and very focused.

Letter of Invitation

the digital letter that Amaterasu sent out

Early Arrival

There's a set time that Suijin will arrive - Noon - but as everyone is encouraged to come early, it is possible you are one of the first or last to arrive among the "early" crowd. How did you get there? Was it by stealth or impossible to miss, even by any Near Shore people in the area?

Topics of Discussion

Now is your chance to discuss with your fellows what you know, don't know, wish you knew, etc. about the cult or their compound. Do your characters think they are still being spied on by Heavens and want to hold back, or are they reasonably confident speaking out with the protecting shinki so far away? At the very least, none of the shinki are making very obvious attempts to return to the compound itself. For the very paranoid, there are little alcoves out of visual range or a small room that still has a door on it, albeit not a ceiling.

Suijin's Arrival

Suijin arrives

via OOC post

We will run this similar to how we ran the Compound's Second Fight: there will be an opportunity for Suijin and/or her shinki to speak, then characters will be given free reign to respond to her and amongst themselves for a period of time. Then, another "round" will begin with Suijin and/or her shinki's responses to the characters. This structure allows for characters to still react with late comments or reactions to anything being said, or jump in whenever they feel comfortable speaking up.

In Summary:

Talk amongst yourselves before Suijin arrives
Check out the damage inflicted on the Compound
Discuss next steps with Suijin, if you would like
Have fun~

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[Shun doesn't have too much to add to what's already been said, especially the part about them being considered part of the old gods. He'd noticed that from the start, and it had always seemed odd.]

Considering how long the cult has been operating, and the fact that we first encountered them behind those "down with Amaterasu" flyers that were going around in the first months after the new gods arrive, it's pretty obvious they intend to overthrow the Heavens. They've also managed to get gods under their control, so it looks like they not only want to put new gods into power, but put new gods in who take commands from the cult's higher-ups.

[First with Votelli, now with Talos - there had been a pattern of gods deferring to the orders of high-ranking cult members.] They've been treating us as part of the old gods since the start, so their focus with "new gods" seems to really be entirely new gods who haven't encountered the Heavens before at all. Probably because they're easier to try and control.

That seems like a reasonable conclusion...but then how does that explain whatever process began bringing new gods here? Do you think it was unrelated to them? And if it is related to them...why didn't they establish contact with us, try to sway us?

I suppose they may have come to the conclusion that gods they made themselves, like Sotero and Votelli, might be more biddable than people with their own former lives and pre-existing personalities...and if one assumes that Sotero and Votelli, as unknown gods, can only exist through the cult's belief in them, then they are rather held hostage to the cult's whims. But how did we start being brought in to begin with? And what made the cult change their minds about us, to go with a homegrown option instead?

I suppose one of the biggest questions is why they haven't tried reaching out to us even now, considering the growing hostility between the new and the old gods. We might not be the pliant puppets they're looking for, but they could probably find new gods and shinki with no love lost for the old gods and the heavens if they cared to look.

It's hard to tell, at this point. [Which Shun absolutely sounds a little irritated with. It's one of those things that's been a big question since they arrived, but they've never seemed to get any closer to an answer.] If it isn't related to them, then why those dolls existed and why they're so connected to us is an even bigger question. But you're right that if they knew we were supposed to be here, you'd think they would have tried to sway us. I've wondered why they never bothered to since the start.

[From the cherry blossom fire onwards, they'd never seemed to bother much with collateral damage. It had set most of the new gods against them from the start, which to Shun had always seemed to be completely counterproductive.]

Even if they wanted us to form our own opinions on the Heavens and create a divide ourselves, setting themselves as our enemies from the start means we'd be less likely to do what suited them if we came into power. So I'm wondering what the hell they're thinking just as much as you at this point.

It does seem pretty illogical! Of course, they could be acting irrationally...but it does make you wonder if we're simply missing a big piece of the puzzle that would help all the others make sense, too.

Do you suppose they want to cause enough unrest and destruction in the heavens that we all turn on each other and weaken ourselves, in order for their own created gods to step in more easily? That's the only hypothesis I can come up with...but it's pretty weak, I'm afraid. I'm not sure anything could weaken established gods - even us new gods - to the point where gods with such niche pockets of belief such as Votelli or Sotero could be in any position to usurp. After all, they only have the cult members as worshipers. Averruncus is quite a minor god from a dead civilization, but even I have more followers than Votelli or Sotero could. It's not likely any of us could be weakened, even in some kind of heavenly civil war, to the point where the cult's personally created gods could overcome us.

If there was some way for them to incarnate Sotero or Votelli, or a god like them, into an old god's former position, though...such as the way we've been incarnating into positions in our respective pantheons...then perhaps their ultimate goal is to somehow cause enough unrest to lead to a death in one of the major old gods. Amaterasu herself would obviously be the most useful, in that case. She dies, her position is vacant...and instead of the Amaterasu we know reincarnating, one of the cult's homegrown gods reincarnates as her, with all her powers, followers, and shinki now at the cult's disposal.

But that assumes they have any way of doing that, and there's no evidence for it. It seems like just about everyone who's incarnated as a god so far had a life before coming here...and we don't even have any hard proof the cult is responsible for that much. It's a lot of conjecture...

Actually...now that I come to think of it, do we have any actual proof that hasn't already happened? Assuming it were possible, and considering that adult gods revert to children when they reincarnate...would the heavens be able to tell if the Amaterasu that reincarnated was still the same person as she was when she'd died...?

It's definitely a stretch, but it's a thought that struck me just now...but I guess it mostly proves just how little we really know for sure, doesn't it?

[Listening in between her own conversations, Ginia startles a little as she considers Komaeda's theory. It's certainly one that ties everything in well and would be the easiest way for the cult to seize power. It's also a long con, a risky one if the god doesn't grow up looking like Amaterasu's predecessors.

There are a few things that do break the theory, but Ginia isn't entirely certain on those points either. She moves closer to the conversation, typing quickly on her phone and having a message ready to play.]

That is a good theory. A stretch, but not completely impossible either. I see a potential snag, but also one I'm not sure about.

When an old god dies or disappears, all their shinki keep their name. If a god takes her place as a new reincarnation, would they still be able to control her shinki or would she be considered a new god? Her exemplar has been seen in person and in her vessel form so we know her name can still be called.

[It's definitely a thought, though Shun wouldn't be surprised if there were other alternatives to it either. He frowns a little at the point Ginia raises, too.]

I know when new gods have died and come back, their shinki have kept their names, but nobody seems to have inherited shinki from a previous incarnation. What is possible even with that, though, is that if one of her shinki was working with the cult, even if she reincarnated as herself, she could be a mouthpiece for their beliefs. Raise her with them, and so on.

The problem with that, though, is why would they be trying to hard to unseat Amaterasu if she was already under their control?

Ah, that's true...I hadn't considered how shinki would factor in. Mind you, to be able to usurp Amaterasu's place with all her shinki at the usurper's disposal would be incredibly valuable to someone if they could pull it off...but I recognize it's a completely baseless hypothesis that anyone could actually do that, and I've got no proof whatsoever. It simply occurred to me that the gods created by the cult all seem to be young - the girl we saw who threw herself into the crystal was a teenager; I wonder if they'd created her quite some time ago? - and, of course, Amaterasu is a child as well. And the strange attitudes of the heavens, not to mention the question of the traitor, would all have easy answers if Amaterasu herself was working with the cult behind the scenes...but then, as you say, why would they be working against her if she was one of them?

But then that cuts both ways, right? If they were trying to turn her into a mouthpiece for them, or manipulating her in some way, it'd be equally pointless for them to try to unseat her.

Anyway, without any evidence to prove my theory's even possible, I guess there's no point in considering it further. I do think my theory that perhaps incarnating new gods into old positions has some merit to it, though...although as far as I know, none of us have inherited shinki or followers when we stepped into our new roles, so how useful that actually is to the cult is questionable. What's the point of putting one of their own gods into the role of, say, Hades, if their new god doesn't have any more power or followers than before? Oh, we have limited power over the aspects of our godly domains, but that's a lot of trouble to go to just for that. At best, it could be so that their homegrown gods could start gaining followers and power under a god's identity that's already a household name - I expect it's hard to round up followers for Sotero and Votelli, and followers are crucial to a god's power. But again, is that worth the effort they're going to?

That's why I think that, even if they can't usurp the followers and shinki an established god already has, that might be what they're ultimately aiming to achieve. We know that new gods are incarnating into old gods' positions - we're the proof - and it seems reasonable to think the cult's responsible. But obviously, judging from the way it's been working, they haven't exactly nailed down the process. So maybe we were the early test runs, flawed experiments. In terms of what would be most beneficial to the cult if they could pull it off...then my theory seems like something they might be aiming for.

That Amaterasu is somehow under the control of the cult or the person using the cult is an idea to keep in mind. However, I agree with focusing on incarnating new gods into old positions as a theory. Because while it doesn't only speak to gods but everyone brought here as a whole. After all, shinki can become gods and vice-versa.

Both of you have been around longer than I have. Do either of you know anything about what status a shinki turned god has in terms of power and status? Does their shrine on the Near Shore come out of nowhere, or was it always there but in attendance of another? Because it's possible part of the cult's problem was they weren't able to incarnate new gods consistently. If some were ending up as shinki instead of the gods they wanted, that would be a problem too.

[Ginia pauses and taps her phone against her hand as she considers what she knows and has seen about the cult.]

Though perhaps that isn't right either. They have two sets of dolls after all. Though perhaps making dolls based on shinki was something that spun off as a result?

I do know that Talos - the one who jumped into the crystal - had only recently gained a shinki, but that doesn't guarantee that she's a recently made god, since as far as I know, Votelli and Sotero didn't have shinki of their own. [It could just be the cult deciding to change their methods in the wake of those two straying, or even the woman from that cultist branch having different methods to "Sensei" handling his own gods.

As for shinki turned gods, Shun shrugs.] They can't have that much difference in status, because Hakkai is a God of Fortune and he started off as a shinki. And it's obviously possible for shinki-turned-gods to get similar status in a similar time than people who were just gods, because he can't have been here any more than a month or two longer than me, but we became Gods of Fortune at the same time. [A matter of a month or two really isn't a big deal, in the grand scheme of things.] I don't know that their shrines work any differently, either, so I think it depends on what god they are.

[There are definitely some people here who've "inherited" shrines, but there are other gods who don't seem to have existed in this world prior whose shrines must have appeared or been created with their arrival.]

Talos? [Komaeda looks surprised.] I suppose that means her shinki is cooperating with us...or talking to someone, at least. [He tilts his head.] I haven't heard anything about what her shinki has had to say...in fact, I don't even know what's happened to that shinki. I nearly passed out after that battle, I'm afraid...perhaps you could fill me in?

I'm sorry for derailing the conversation with such a selfish request...but it seems like we don't know enough to come to any solid conclusions about the other things in any case...

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39 - Where Do We Stand?

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